Criswell: If we can start… as I said if we can talk a little about your back ground and biographical information and so forth, the first thing I need you to do is for the recording, it’s a Monday July tenth, two thousand and six, and we are at the home of Earl and Viola Robbins in what Rock Hill?

M: Uh huh.

Criswell: Rock Hill, South Carolina. And the first thing I need you to do is to get your permission to record you and to use the information on here for the nomination for the National Heritage Award and if its ok to take this recording and put it in the archive, The Tom Blumer Archive at the university. Is that ok?

Earl: That’s ok.

Criswell: Is that ok, sorry, is it ok to record you?

M: Yes, it’s a yes.

(Laughs)

Earl: Say yes.

M: Yeah, say yes momma

V: Yes

Earl: It’s a yes.

Criswell: Ok

Earl: She can’t hear so good.

M: I know.

Criswell: I will speak up a little bit.  Can we start by you just talk a little about your self, about where you were born, where you grew up and how you started working with pottery?

E: I was born … in Cherokee County up near Chestney. You know where that’s at don’t you?

Criswell: Uh huh, Uh huh.

E: I was born there, then a few years later we moved down here to the reservation.

P: What year were you born Earl?

Earl: In 22, 1922.

Criswell: What did your parents do?

E: Farm.

Criswell: What did they farm?

E: Mostly cotton.

C: And they farmed in Cherokee County?

E: Yeah.

C: And did they farm when they got back over here?

E: When they moved down here they planted corn and stuff like that.

C: Ok. You grew up… how old were you when you moved?

M: He was about 12 or 14.

E: I was 14, when we move to Chestney, from Chestney.

C: Did you go to school there.

E: I went to school one time, went to school in SC and I went to school in NC.

C: What was the School?

E: Street School in NC. That year that teacher put me up, I made three grades in that one year.

P: Oh yeah.

E: There weren’t a war, she put me up, I made three grades that one year.

P: Wow!

E: I done good I thought.

P: That is good.

C: So then you moved over here…

E: I moved over here and quit school, me and my daddy would get out and cut wood for people to get something, buy groceries or what ever.

C: And when did you meet Mrs. Robbins?

E: When I first moved down here I reckon.

C: And was it love at first site?

E: No.

(Laughs)

C: Took a while?

(Laughs)

E: It was a while after that.

C: So when did you start making pottery?

E: Georgia Harris told me where I could start making something, and I did. I got started and I never did quite.

M: Until now

C: About what year was that?

E: I can’t remember the year exactly, but I was about 13/14 years then.

C: So have you made pottery all through you life or where there times that you stopped for a while?

E: Yeah, there would be times that I stopped for a while.

C: What else did you work, you said you cut wood with your daddy and then…

E: After I got married I went to work in town at the Victoria Cotton Mill

C: What did you do there?

E: Well, …I didn’t work there too long though, I went out side doing carpenter work on the mill hill.

C: And were you making pottery then

E: No I wasn’t making pottery then

C: So when you started back, did you start back when you retired or before then…

E: Well…

C: Well, talk about, can you talk a little about how you made your pots and how the two of you work together.

E: Both of us.

C: Yeah.

E: We just work together.

(Laughs)

P: Where did you,  after you quite making pots and you were working building, doing the carpentry work on the mill hill, working at the cotton factory when did you start making pots again? Cause you’ve been making pots for a while.

E: Well I was making them when I first went to work at the mill.

P:  Right, when did you start back?

M: Probably in the 80’s.

P: Not necessarily the exact year if you can’t remember, but 20 years ago or…

M: Yeah, the 80’s I would say, sometimes in the 80’s, 80.

P: We have one pot here beside us dated in 1989.

M: Yeah, he started back in the early 80’s I believe, in 1980.

P: Uh huh.

M: You didn’t start making pots ‘til you moved back down here did you? On the reservation?

E: I made some a long time ago.

M: Yeah, when you were little but I mean later on.

E:

M: Yeah, you started making them big nice ones when you moved down here.

E: Yeah.

M: Which would have been in 82 somewhere in the 80’s.

E: I guess I got tired and quit.

(Laughs)

C: So you were a, you were part of that exhibit in the one Lindsey Williams put together.

E: Who?

C: Lindsey Williams, you work with her and the Nations Bank.

P: It’s in Columbia.

C: It’s in Columbia.

E: I don’t know what she did with them.

(Laughs)

C: She probably found out, (laughs). So you said Georgia Harris got you started?

E: Yeah.

C: Ok.

E: She got me to start making pots.

C: Did she teach you?

E: No she didn’t teach me.

C: She just encouraged you.

E: Wanted me to start you know. I can make it with out someone teaching me.

C: And now did you teach you daughter, or did she pick it up on her own?

E: Picked it up on her own.

M: Uh huh, he won’t show me nothing.

(E&M: LOL)

C: On of the things that I think is unique about your work is what a lot of people comments on is the size. That you make such large pieces, what, why did you decide to do such big pots, why not just the traditional smaller ones?

E: I don’t know, I didn’t like the pots, they just got bigger.

C: Is it the same technique and you just make it bigger or is there a different approach to making it, you have to make it a different way?

E: No you don’t have to make it no different way, just bigger.

C: Just bigger.

(Laughs)

P: What is the method, and talk a little about your work method and your process about making a pot?

E: I don’t know what to say about that.

M: Well he starts about 3 o’clock in the morning.

P: The first time I met you I was amazed at when you got started.

M: Yeah.

P: Right when I was going to sleep and getting into bed your getting up and starting to make pots.

E: Yeah.

P: I started to come out here one morning to check on you to see if you where telling the truth or not.

(Laughs)

E:

(Laughs)

M: But you use the coil method and you have a few pipe bowls and stuff that you have made yourself.

P: Uh huh.

M: And momma she would. Every piece that he would make, she would roast for him.

E: Nobody had no pipe bowls and no one knew how to make one, so I didn’t have nothing to go by I just started making my own pipe.

M: His has a bunch of them.

C: What do you make those out of , are those made out of clay and then you use those to press the clay into?

M: Yeah.

P: So when you said you had to make the pipe bowls, did you make the pipes?

E: Yeah I made the pipes.

P: And then made the mold?

E: I not sure you could make one with out the pipe, mold, but I did. Make the pipe, make the mold.

C: So you made the pipe first?

E: Yeah.

C: And then put the clay around it to make the mold?

E: Um huh.

C: Does other people use your molds or are they just yours to use?

E: Mine to use, I told some that can use.

C: So other people one the reservation, the potters?

E: Yeah.

P: Some collectors have bought some to haven’t they?

M: Blumer had a set.

C: Where did you get the ideas for the molds for the pipe shape.  Were those shape you made up on your own, or ones you had seen?

E: Some of them were, I would see a pipe you know.

C: A pot like this, this one here. How long from start to finish about how long does that take to make?

E: I don’t know, I don’t know how long it would take.

C: Just the molding just the shaping part of it, what would that take?

M: About a week dad? Two weeks? To let is set up an air…

E: A week would be plenty of time.

M: That’s about like that, because you have to add a layer and is has to take a layer like this right here, its got to dry just enough to hold up another layer.

P: Or it will start to collapse?

M: Yeah, its got to be just a little bit dry.

P: Then you add another layer?

M: Yeah, you add another layer, then let that sit, so I don’t know how long you would spend on that pot, but I would imagine it was a good time, good length of time to do this.

P: Yeah.

C: And then the heads, did you make those separately or was that a mold?

M: Yes, that was a mold, he’s got a head mold for that.

C: Then you attach, you score it?

M: You just stick it on there with wet clay.

C: Oh ok.

M: Like a glue.

P: Do you score it before you? …

M: I think you do take like a fork or something and scratch it.

E: Oh yeah.

C: Do you see… do you see much of the other potters work, the younger potters, have you look at much of their work, and do you see imitators, do you see people who look like they have been inspired by your work

 E: I guess some of them try to make it, I don’t know

V: Me

(Laughs)

C: Someone who is making Earl Robbins pots I’ve heard about I don’t know

(Laughs)

M: Yeah, I think that was his daughter.

(Laughs)

C: Is that right?

(Laughs)

P: Earl, the pot construction is building the building the coils, but in the legs, how are the legs attached? Do you just… because it is such a big pot it is kind of hard to imagine attaching those.

E:  ___ mark around and scratch it real good where you put the leg on, use a small space to put the two together, press it together real good, like that so it will stay there.

P: So its applied to the surface?

E: Uh huh.

P: Attached to the bottom?

C: Do you have to go through

M: No, but sometimes they use to make them go through and you could see…

P: Uh hum

M: Yeah, but those I don’t think you can make those go through, dad would make his stuff thick and scrap it down thin.  He always said, make it thick so you have plenty of time, plenty of room to scrape it down.

P: Um hum

C: Mrs. Robbins, do you do the scraping?

V: The scraping and the rubbing.

C: And the rubbing. How do you do the scraping? How do you do that?

V: I have my knife.

C: With a knife?

V: With a knife, yeah.

M: That’s a home made knife.

C: Oh, ok.

(Mumbles and laughter)

P: Is this one of the knifes that you used?

M: There’s another one, that is supposed to be, you see the clay on it? I use that one too.

P: Oh yeah.

E:[ ]

P: So Earl makes the knifes?

C: You made these?

E: Uh…

V: He made these, yeah.

C: Did you…where does the blade come from?

E: Out of another knife.

C: Oh, out of another knife. And then you make the handle?

E: Yeah, you have to make the handle.

C: Ok.  Do you use these as well?

V: Yeah.

C: And so you’re scraping with one of these?

V:___

P: He scrapes the excess clay, he scrapes them thinner and then you smooth the surface out is that right?

M: She rubs it for him.  Every piece his made…

V:

M: and then she rubs her own.  She would make and scrap her own.

V:

C: What do you rub with?

E:

C: you rub with a rock?

V:

E: (asking a question to V&M) Do you know where there at?

V:

E: Do you know where there at?

M: I know where there at.

(Mumbles…)

P: I’ll let you get out…

(Door opens and closes)

V:

C: Where do you get the rocks?

E: I get mine at the river down here.

(Door opens and closes)

M: There is moms rubbing rocks, (V, Laughs), and she also has this rubbing rock.

C: so they have to be this smooth

M: yeah they have to be polished right.

P: How do they get polished?

M: well you can get river rocks can’t you?

E: yeah

M: and then dads got this tumbler he made that polishes them, and he made this too.

C:

V:

E: I had a couple of them…

M: When I worked at the meat department when I was a meat cutter.  I’d get some bones and give them to him and he would cut them out and use that to rub with too.

C: Did the…were the bones, do he put them through the tumbler or…

M: No, you sent them off didn’t you?

E: yeah

(Light whispers)

M: and moms got this one, it’s a little more… glued on a stick… so dad he is very inventive

V:

P: That’s great.

M: He’s very good at inventing things, spoons with long handles on them, use them to scrap and … let me go see if I can find them.

C: Mrs. Robbins when did you start making pottery?

V: Oh I don’t know its been a long time, I was about 14 years old when I started I think, well, 13 or 14 somewhere along there.

C: and how did you learn

V: Huh?

C: How did you learn?

V: From my mother. She, I watched her you know.

C: Did she teach you or did you just watch her.

V: I just watched her and I would make them like she made them.

(Door opens and closes, M, returns)

M: Some sticks and here’s a sander, to go down into a vase you know like a wedding vase.

C: oh ok.

(light conversation? b/w M&C)

C: and I guess when you make such big pieces like that you’re going to be creative in the tools as well

M: yeah

V:

P: That’s great. 

V:

P: So the tools you have evolve as the pots evolve, and the standard tool because your making pots bigger than really any body else.

E: Yeah

P: When you think about the tradition, the history of pots you know from like the turn of the century to the 1900’s, 1920’s and 40’s all up until you started in the 80’s they where relatively small. You know. Especially the early pots, made for the tourist trade you know and sold up at the gates at Winthrop and that sort of thing.

C: Cherokee.

P: yeah the Cherokee.  The largest one would be maybe an efagee water jar or something like that. That would be smaller than a gallon, so the standard tool would probably work for that.  Earl’s making these gigantic pots, the tools would have to evolve with it I guess.

M: um hum.

C: Do you remember when you sold your first pot?

E: I don’t believe I do.

M: He told me a story one time, he made a pot and traded it to get a 22 rifle.  Do you remember telling me that? 

E: No.

M: You said you made a piece of pottery and sold it to get a rifle.

E:  Sold it?

M: Well you traded it, you traded it to get a rifle and you traded that pot for it or something like that.

P: When was that?

E: That was when I first started making them.

P: When you were young?

E: Um huh.

C: So you got a 22 rifle for a pot?

E: Well I don’t know what I had to give him it makes no difference.

(Laughs)

C: I heard a story that a fellow a Boewater wanted you to make I think like 50 pots or 100 bowls and how were you able to make, did you make all 100?

(door opens and closes)

E: There was a 100, and I made them all. I made some[ ], I made them too.

C: So have you sold you work through the Cultural Center or…

(Door opens and Closes)

M: Like this one, this one has a crack in it but he made a 100 of those.

C: This is the wedding vase we have at the University it has this same etching.  How do you do this?

M: You have a little tool.

E: Huh?

M: You have a little tool that rolls on it, with a little roller on it.

E: Yeah, yeah. Made that.

M: Um hum.

C: So this etching right here?

M: He made a little tool, like a little roller.

E: Yeah.

C: AHHHH.  So you just roll it, you don’t have to hand?…

E: No.

C: Ahhh. Oh Ok.

M: His slick ain’t he?

C: Yeah.

(Laughs)

C: So where did you get the idea for that design on there?

E: I just thought it up.

C: Yeah.

P: It almost looks like a tree.

M: Like a fern type.

P: Like a fern.

M: I’d call it a fern.

C: Like a woodlands design.

( low conversation)

M: I’m not that smart I had to draw mine.

C: Do you have, so this pot here is almost entirely black, this one…

V:

C: This one is light brown, do you have any control over how the pot turns out, in terms of color or that just random or…

E: I can change the color if I want to.

C: How do you do that?

E: Put something on it or take something off the [unclear]/

M: It depends on how quick you take them out.

E: If you let it burn all the way down on there the pot will get [unclear] looking, if you keep it covered up the whole time the pot will be black.

P: Hum.

C: Because the amount of smoke?

M: Oxidation I guess.

C: Oxidation.  Does different types of wood make, result in different colors or does it matter?

E: It might I don’t know, I just always used oak.

P: You used oak the whole time, you start out with oak?

M: You heat with pine but you don’t let it touch the pot.

P: So you heat with pine but you don’t let it touch, because it would probably leave sap or something.

E: I would probably.

M: It sure could.

C: You burn all yours here?

E: Yeah…

C: I would like to see it if its ok.

E: Yeah.

(Laughs)

M: He’s revived that too, it’s a little different version than how they use to burn. They used to be a pit, but since he made big pieces he had to have something made where he could control it better. The __ and everything.

C: Oh. And all your clay comes from the local people…

E: Yeah …

P: In VanWick?

E: Yeah.

C: Now have you always gotten your own clay or have you gotten clay from others?

E: No.

C: You made it yourself?

E: Yeah.

P: Is that somewhere where people usually get clay or is there a special place you go to?

E: Yeah, everybody…

M: That’s where everybody uses.

C: Is that near Nesta?

P: At the bottom?

M: Near Nesta.

P: They’ve been getting clay there a long time.

M&E: yeah.

P: How long to you think?

E: Probably a 100 years at most.

C: With that clay you have to filter?

M: Yeah.

C: Do you use a wire screen wire to do that.

E: Yeah.

C: And then you let that dry a little bit?

M: Yeah you have to let it dry so you can work with it.

P: Because of the water?

M: So it will be the consistency that you can work with it.  Put it up in buckets and save it so it won’t dry out even more.

P: But can you use that clay that you get at Nesta bottoms to make the pots or do you have mix other things with it?

E: I mix some other stuff in with it to make what is call Pan clay.

P: So the pan claying…

M: And pipe clay.

P: And pipe clay?

E: [unknown]

P: Um hum. So the pan clay is more micashous?

E: Gravel like.

P: Right.

E: Real gravel like or something like.

M: To make big pieces.

E: Um hum.

M: Gives stability more.

C: So its mixing the two different types of clays…

M: Um hum.

C: How do you decide what you’re going to make?

E: Well I think about what I want to make and I say I’m going to make it.

(Laughs)

C: Do you copy yourself much or do you try to make something new and different or does it depend on your mood or…

E: Make them one at a time.

P: Some pots are traditional pots right?

M: Um hum.

P: That you maybe learned when you were younger how to make or saw other people making them, like the snake pot, because you are pretty well known for your snake pot, is that a traditional form people made a lot of or something you invented?

E: I didn’t make a snake pot for a long time.

P: Yeah.

E: You know some people want my snake pot either.

P: Oh yeah.

E: They won’t have them.

M: Their scared of the snake.

(Laughs)

C: Too realistic.

(Laughs)

M: Well the reason why the snake was on there was to keep the rodents from getting into the bowl, scare the rodents away.  It wasn’t an idea that was cute.

C: Do you think much about being part of a tradition where there were Catawba folks making pots like yours but not exactly like yours 100 years ago, 200 years ago, 500 years ago, do you ever give that much thought or?

E: No.

(Laugh)

C: Ok.

E: I don’t think about it.

C: Alright, well that you’re carrying on that tradition that has been around for generations and because of you is going to be around for more generations. People are going to be admiring your work years, years, 100’s of years from now and probably going to say oh that’s an Earl Robbins pot, a beautiful piece of work.

E: I think a football is a lot more fun.

P: Football.

(Laughs)

P: That’s breaking a tradition a little bit.

E: I sold it to a fellow on day he never paid me for them,

P: Really.

E: He bought $400 worth from me that day never paid a dime for them.

P: Well that’s no good.

E: He’s a Shepard.

M: Utto.

C: Was they football pots or did they have a hole in the top or was it just a solid.

E: Yeah it had the top open so you could put something in it you know, and it had legs on it.

(Laughs)

C: You just made one of those?

E: Huh?

C: You just made one?

E: Just made one.

P: What about you Viola? And your pots the different pots that you make, or mostly the ones you made, the ones you remember from growing up from you family making them. Have you ever changed any of them?

V: I made some at my momma’s house, She made small pieces, I do too. [My sister and I] both made them with her.

P: Um hum. ___ Harris that was her name?

C: What was your momma’s name?

V: Huh?

C: What was your momma’s name?

V: Maggie, Maggie Harris.

C: Maggie.

V: ___ we would watch her, how she made hers and we made some too.

P: Yeah.

V: (laughs) _____

P: What was Maggie’s mom’s name, do you remember your grandparents names?

V: My momma’s momma’s name?

P: Um hum.

V: Um. I believe her name was Ruthy.

P: Ruthy…

V: Price.

P: Ruthy Price.

V: And I had a sister named Ruthy.

P: Um hum.

C: Now all them make pots?

V: No, my sister Nola made pots.

P: Nola Campbell?

V: You know her don’t you?

P: Um hum.

V: And my oldest sister, her name was Birdy, she made some. Birdy ___ she made pots.

P: I don’t think I’ve met her.

V: Huh?

P: I don’t think I’ve met her.

V: That’s my oldest sister. Ruthy was next, Nola was next, and I was last.

P: You were the baby.

V: Yeah.

M: She has a brother, Douglas, he was cheating at one time.

P: Oh yeah.

M: Douglas Harris.

C: Douglas Harris?

M: Um hum.

V: Yeah I was twins.

P: Um hum. You had a whole family of well known potters. You and your sisters, Veriola, and Nola Campbell.

C: And then Georgia was your sister in law?

V: Yeah.

C: That’s a lot of potters.

P: Yeah.

C: A lot of artist.

M: Um hum.

P: Sure is.

C: But you make your own pieces but you have also done the rubbing for Earls.

V: Yeah I rub Earls.

C: I heard he would time you.

(laughs)

C: Is that right?

V: He would.

(Laughs around the room)

V:

C: What’s your best time?

M: I don’t know if he ever told her or not.

V:  ___ big pieces to rub, I would start and he said are you through with it.

(Laughs)

P: Earl wakes up real early in the morning, do you still wake up and make your pots?

E: I still wake up but I don’t make no pots.

P: You still get up at 3 in the morning?

E: No I don’t get up at 3.

P: What about you Viola do you still get up?

V: No I don’t get up that early.

(Laughs)

P: So you have to get up early in the morning make sure you rub the pots you got to get done that day?

V: Yeah.

(Laughs)

V: __big pieces___

(Laughs)

M: They work together.

E: (talking at the same time as viola)

V:____I got to finish that pot it’s a big piece.

(Laughs)

P: So do you use the clay that Earl prepares?

V: Um hum.

C: Does he ever rub for you?

(Laughs)

V: NO!

(Laughs)

M: She’s fast too.

P: Yeah.

V: When I get threw I have to rest because they be so big.

P: I know.  You have to be fast to have enough time to do your own pots too. Right?

(Laughs)

V: I take time off myself…

(Laughs)

V:

C: So what, so your daughter is a potter as well, correct? What do you think about Margaret work? Or is that a dangerous question? Do you see your work in her work? Do you see your influences in her work?

E: I think she tries to make them different.

C: What do you think about it?

E: She makes them different.

(Laughs)

M: I think I make a little bit of hers and his it’s a combination.

P: Um hum.

M: You can see a little of hers and his in what I do.

P: Yeah.

M: With my own style.

P: Yeah and they don’t typically name their pots either.

M: Now I like to name mine so somebody’s like oh I have a really nice ___ Robbins pot or Earl Robbins pot or…

P: Sun pot.

M: Yeah sun bowl.

P: Warm bowl.
M: Yeah warm bowl, that keep sake warm bowl.

P: Warm pot.